Photo: Rick Santorum. Credit: Gage Skidmore/flickr.
Former Pennsylvania senator and GOP presidential candidate Rick Santorum said he does not know if being gay is a choice, but pointed to those who identify as ex-gay as evidence that some people have changed their sexual orientations.
In the second part of a two-part interview on The Rachel Maddow Show, Santorum sparred with MSNBC host Rachel Maddow over a variety of issues, including the role of the Supreme Court, whether Congress could overturn a decision legalizing marriage equality, and his previous comments on same-sex marriage. Maddow asked Santorum whether people choose to be gay, at which point Santorum hedged, saying he did not know, but he suspects there are a number of reasons influencing whether someone is gay.
“If it’s an immutable characteristic — you don’t know if it’s immutable or not?” Maddow asked.
“I don’t know,” Santorum responded, noting that, if homosexuality is found to be immutable, it raises other issues such as sex-selective abortions. “If you determine that one of your children is gay, shall we pass a law saying you can’t abort a child because you found out that child’s gonna be gay? You can’t abort a child because you found out that child is a woman?”
Maddow again pressed him to answer the question: “Do you think that some people choose to be gay?”
“There are people who are alive today who identified themselves as gay and lesbian and who no longer are,” Santorum said. “I’ve met people in that case. So I guess maybe in that case, maybe they did.”
“You think people can choose to be heterosexual?” Maddow said. “You chose to–“
“All I’m saying is I do know people who have lived a gay lifestyle, and no longer live it,” Santorum replied.
“Do you believe it can be orchestrated, like you can make a person not gay anymore?” Maddow asked.
“I don’t spend a whole lot of time thinking about these things, to be honest,” he said.
Throughout the interview, Santorum defended his conservative opposition to marriage equality, arguing that the Supreme Court, over the years, has made decisions on LGBT rights that were not constitutionally-based and open the door to other issues, such as whether plural marriage is legal. Maddow brought up Santorum’s infamous comments from 2003 likening same-sex marriage to “man on dog” relations, which Santorum made when arguing in favor of keeping in place the sodomy laws that were overturned by the Supreme Court in the case of Lawrence v. Texas. Maddow eventually elicited a partial apology from the former senator.
“I’m saying that people will make arguments for consensual activity,” Santorum said, initially defending his comments.
“Why did you say the word ‘dog’?” Maddow asked.
“I was quoting Justice White in his 1986 decision, and that’s why I was referring to his opinion that that was the majority opinion at the time,” Santorum said.
“You see how it hurt gay people to put it that way?” Maddow asked.
“Trust me, I wish I had never said that,” Santorum answered. “It was a flippant comment, made to a reporter who, in my opinion, was not being particularly professional in her interview. But that’s not an excuse for me. I take responsibility for what I said.”
Maddow then asked whether he regretted the comment, to which Santorum responded, “Absolutely, I regret it. It was a flippant comment that never should have come out of my mouth, but the substance of what I said, which is what I’ve referred to, I stand by that…. I wish I hadn’t said it.”
See Maddow’s interview with Santorum below (Video credit: MSNBC).
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The resolution would prohibit members, officers, and employees of the U.S. House of Representatives from using single-sex facilities that do not align with their assigned sex at birth.
The bill was introduced following the election of U.S. Rep.-elect Sarah McBride (D-Del.), who will be sworn in as the first out transgender member of Congress on January 3, 2025.
The measure charges the House sergeant-at-arms, William McFarland, with enforcing the ban.
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The country's ruling National Transitional Council, on October 31, approved the proposed law by a vote of 131-1. The measure must next be approved by the country's military leaders before taking effect.
Details of punishments under the new penal code have not yet been announced.
"There are now provisions prohibiting homosexuality in Mali," Mamadou Kassogue, Mali's Minister of Justice and Human Rights, said following the vote. "Anyone engaging in this practice or promoting or condoning it will be prosecuted."
U.S. Sen. Roger Marshall (R-Kansas) has introduced a bill that would erase transgender identity from the law.
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Under the bill, "male" and "female" are defined as individuals who naturally have -- or would have, but for a congenital anomaly -- a reproductive system that produces, respectively, sperm or eggs for fertilization.
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Former Pennsylvania senator and GOP presidential candidate Rick Santorum said he does not know if being gay is a choice, but pointed to those who identify as ex-gay as evidence that some people have changed their sexual orientations.
In the second part of a two-part interview on The Rachel Maddow Show, Santorum sparred with MSNBC host Rachel Maddow over a variety of issues, including the role of the Supreme Court, whether Congress could overturn a decision legalizing marriage equality, and his previous comments on same-sex marriage. Maddow asked Santorum whether people choose to be gay, at which point Santorum hedged, saying he did not know, but he suspects there are a number of reasons influencing whether someone is gay.
“If it’s an immutable characteristic — you don’t know if it’s immutable or not?” Maddow asked.
“I don’t know,” Santorum responded, noting that, if homosexuality is found to be immutable, it raises other issues such as sex-selective abortions. “If you determine that one of your children is gay, shall we pass a law saying you can’t abort a child because you found out that child’s gonna be gay? You can’t abort a child because you found out that child is a woman?”
Maddow again pressed him to answer the question: “Do you think that some people choose to be gay?”
“There are people who are alive today who identified themselves as gay and lesbian and who no longer are,” Santorum said. “I’ve met people in that case. So I guess maybe in that case, maybe they did.”
“You think people can choose to be heterosexual?” Maddow said. “You chose to–“
“All I’m saying is I do know people who have lived a gay lifestyle, and no longer live it,” Santorum replied.
“Do you believe it can be orchestrated, like you can make a person not gay anymore?” Maddow asked.
“I don’t spend a whole lot of time thinking about these things, to be honest,” he said.
Throughout the interview, Santorum defended his conservative opposition to marriage equality, arguing that the Supreme Court, over the years, has made decisions on LGBT rights that were not constitutionally-based and open the door to other issues, such as whether plural marriage is legal. Maddow brought up Santorum’s infamous comments from 2003 likening same-sex marriage to “man on dog” relations, which Santorum made when arguing in favor of keeping in place the sodomy laws that were overturned by the Supreme Court in the case of Lawrence v. Texas. Maddow eventually elicited a partial apology from the former senator.
“I’m saying that people will make arguments for consensual activity,” Santorum said, initially defending his comments.
“Why did you say the word ‘dog’?” Maddow asked.
“I was quoting Justice White in his 1986 decision, and that’s why I was referring to his opinion that that was the majority opinion at the time,” Santorum said.
“You see how it hurt gay people to put it that way?” Maddow asked.
“Trust me, I wish I had never said that,” Santorum answered. “It was a flippant comment, made to a reporter who, in my opinion, was not being particularly professional in her interview. But that’s not an excuse for me. I take responsibility for what I said.”
Maddow then asked whether he regretted the comment, to which Santorum responded, “Absolutely, I regret it. It was a flippant comment that never should have come out of my mouth, but the substance of what I said, which is what I’ve referred to, I stand by that…. I wish I hadn’t said it.”
See Maddow’s interview with Santorum below (Video credit: MSNBC).
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